Dancing About Architecture: the slow death of music journalism

First published in Pan Magazine, September 2012

For context: at the time of writing this I had just been promoted from Music Editor of Time Out Sydney to a more generalist Associate Editor position, marking the final time that I was to predominantly be a music writer.  A number of music-focussed magazines had either closed or gone online-only at this point, a situation which has only gotten worse in the intervening years.  

Music writing chose me.

Or, more accurately, Alex Wheaton chose me to write about music, and he did so for three reasons: one, that it was 1992 and the relatively-young Adelaide street mag dB Magazine needed writers; two, that he’d spoken to me when I’d dropped my band’s demo in a few weeks earlier (which he reviewed, accurately and bluntly, if not unkindly) and had therefore established that I was both fairly literate and a bit of a smartarse; and three, because he did so during a Robyn Hitchcock gig in the basement of the now-defunct Big Star Records on Rundle Street, and Alex knew that I worked at Big Star’s equally-vanished Marion store a couple of days a week. “You didn’t pay to get in,” he said, economically summing up the greatest perk inherent in being a music writer, “so write me a review.”

I did. And so began my career as a music journalist, which has lasted for two decades and is now, in its own quiet manner, fading gently away.

Music: I still like it.

Music: I still like it.

It’s not because I don’t still adore music, I should add. I’ve yet to become one of those tiresome people who insist that music was amazing when they were 14, or 22, or 31, and that every year since has been a slow downhill slide into mediocrity. I still listen to dozens of new records a week and have yet to find more than a couple of days go by that I don’t hear something that I’ll thrust into a friend’s hands or inbox with evangelical zeal, breathlessly insisting “you’ve got to hear this, it’s amazing.”

The reason that my career is in its twilight is because, in 2012, being a great music writer is much like being a great masturbator: it’s a skill that’s a genuine pleasure to deploy, but the internet’s full of people doing it for free; and no-one’s going to be comfortable about paying you to do it in an office five days a week.

We are a dying breed, full-time music journalists, reflecting the death of the music industry – or, more accurately, reflecting the death of the bit of the music industry that bought enough advertising to make magazines find music a viable thing for which to dedicate page space and staff budgets.

The savvier of us have transitioned into “entertainment editors”, with music making up a steadily diminishing percentage of the television, film, video games and Tinseltown gossip that keeps a roof over their heads. Others of us got out of music writing altogether, moving into copywriting or publicity; and in the case of one particularly excellent writer, becoming label manager for an indie about which she used to write so entertainingly. In most cases we still freelance around the magazines and websites that still employ writers, or have bitten the bullet and started the sort of blogs about which we once snorted so derisively (ahem, http://www.andrewpstreet.com).

So, since this might be the last time I get to do so from a position of any sort of authority, I would like to speak out in defence of the near-extinct music journalist, even as we raise our unblinking eyes to the sky and watch the asteroid streak across the horizon.

Because you know what we did, at our best? We acted as gatekeepers, telling people who also cared about music about what was good and interesting and exciting, and either warning you off (or, more often, diligently ignoring) the music that was dreck. We were the culture’s spam filters, and like a spam filter we could occasionally block something that would, on closer inspection, turn out to be important – but far more often we would keep your exposure to music down to a manageable, high-quality amount whilst quietly disposing of the 98% of it that was the equivalent of YOU NEED V1AGRA? CANADIAN PHARMACY SECRETS!

Now, when I talk about filtering I’m not talking about eliminating music that’s not to my taste. A good reviewer can generally accept something on its own merits. For my part, there are certain genres for which I genuinely can’t distinguish quality from garbage (I can’t even imagine what would qualify as a good Hard House record, other than that it would be quiet, short and self-destruct mid-way through, killing everybody involved) but it’s not difficult to assess an objectively good pop record, say, from a terrible one.

But as a professional music journo, I’ve listened to 30-odd albums a week for over 20 years. That’s over 31,000 albums, give or take. In comparison, my home iTunes library has just over 4,000 albums on it, meaning that I’ve bothered keeping around 13% of the stuff I’ve heard. That’s just maths.

And I’m amazed it’s that much, to be honest. A good chunk of those years were when I lived in Adelaide, during which I was a tireless advocate of the local scene. I sought out local music assiduously. I was in bands and played on all-local bills often. I created compilations of Adelaide music for MISA, dB’s annual industry directory publication. I was active in the state government’s Contemporary Music Grants Program. I listened to literally hundreds of cassettes, demos, CDs, singles and albums. I bought my first Adelaide record at age 17 (Exploding White Mice’s ‘A Nest of Vipers’ EP, for the record) and was accumulating exclusive-to-A-town stuff right up until I moved to Sydney 18 years later.

Sitting in my apartment tonight, I can tell you exactly how many of those Adelaide artists are still represented in my collection: 15.

Do you know why music journos get so damn excited about local bands doing something great? You might have put it down to some sort of arrogant marking of territory, the journalistic version of pissing on a band and declaring you were there first. But it’s much, much more innocent than that: it’s that all local bands are awful, except for the ones that are amazing. And it is those few stars that shine like lighthouses in a vast ocean of shit and make one almost weep with pure, joyful relief.

That’s why every Sydney music writer lost their head over Royal Headache last year: not only are they objectively great (‘Pity’ is probably my favourite song of the last 12 months) but they’re contrasted against the hundreds of similar bands playing their shitty, shitty music to handfuls of indulgent friends in warehouses and front bars all over the country.

A great band – or a great record – is something to be cherished and celebrated and shared, to be pored over and gotten obsessed about. Music journalists, at our best, are trying to get you to share our excitement for that very reason – and also because we know that if you had to listen to half a dozen self-funded bedroom metal EPs or collections of suburban hip hop jams, you’d go “hey, music: fuck you” and go waterskiing instead.

And now, as I gird myself for my new life as an itinerant freelancer and part-time Contributing Editor, I look back on the above with a grim smile and think two things:

1. Our resources may be meagre and our spirits broken with press releases, but music deserves better than barely-literate bloggers and the expanding armies of youth oriented cross-platform marketing strategists rising to target them, and

2. “Canadian Pharmacy Secrets” would be a killer band name.

The Cure Trilogy Show at Vivid Live, Sydney Opera House

First published at Time Out Sydney, 1 June 2011

The Cure soundcheck at Vivid Live: pic by Daniel Boud, who is a freakin' photography legend-genius:  http://danielboud.com/

The Cure soundcheck at Vivid Live: pic by Daniel Boud, who is a freakin’ photography legend-genius: http://danielboud.com/

First up: if you’re going tonight, stop reading now. There are some spoilers to come regarding the setlist and I don’t want to ruin the surprise. “But APS, the show’s their first three albums: I know what the setlist is.” No, you really don’t. Stop reading – but just know you’re going to have a very, very good time. Oh, and that you should take the toilet breaks when they’re offered. You’ll thank me.

Still with me, rest of you? Let’s press on.

This show, nice Vivid Festival surprise that it was, seemed to be an odd decision on the Cure’s part. With the best will in the world, and acknowledging that they do have some genuinely classic albums, their debut is… well, a bit shit. Robert Smith acknowledged as much at the time, fuming that manager/producer Chris Parry put Three Imaginary Boys together from sessions Smith was unhappy with, and it never even got a proper release in Australia with Polygram opting instead for the superior best-tracks-from-Boys-plus-singles-and-b-sides mish-mash Boys Don’t Cry.

Yet here is Smith, flanked by his long-time rhythm section of bassist Simon Gallup (1980-1982, 1985-present) and drummer Jason Cooper (1995-present), neither of whom played on the album. How would Cooper handle Lol Tolhurst’s enthusiastic-yet-unschooled drumming? How would Gallup take on Michael Dempsey’s fiddly basslines?

The answer, it turns out, is they don’t even try. Cooper stuck with his trademark straight-ahead drumming (either “solid” or “dull”, depending on your inclination) and Gallup (looking inexplicably good for a 50 year old) tended to stick to the root notes. And you know what? It worked.

The set began with the classic ‘10:15 Saturday Night’, then the band slowed down the fidgety ‘Accuracy’ to great effect and the crowd went nuts for ‘Grinding Halt’. And that’s the song that really showed off the sort of Jam-style power-trio the Cure were then, even as the following – the stately, economical ‘Another Day’ was probably the clearest indication as to what was coming on the next few albums. And Robert was in playful form, explaining “I don’t really like this one” before the misogynist thrasher ‘Object’ before busting out harmonica for the terrifying side-one closer ‘Subway Song’.

Side two, a couple of classics aside, is mainly a garbage dump. It never sounded better, though, as the trio powered through the punky cover of ‘Foxy Lady’, ‘Meathook’ and the absolute throwaway ‘So What?’ (“I’m amazed I remembered as much of that as I did”) before the first of the redeeming moments: ‘Fire in Cairo’, with Smith trying to cover both his and Dempsey’s riffs since Gallup wasn’t up to the job. Then it was ‘It’s Not You’ (‘Object’ again, effectively) and the magnificent title track, and that was that. One album down, and a break for the bar.

The stage was reset for Seventeen Seconds, with keyboardist Roger O’Donnell (who joined in 1987, left in 1991, came back in 1995 and was dismissed in 2005) joining the aforementioned trio. The instrumental ‘A Reflection’ acted as the perfect curtain-raiser before one of the band’s enduring classics: ‘Play For Today’ with pretty much the entire audience singing along with the keyboard riff. ‘’In Your House’ was downright magnificent and ‘At Night’ haunting, and everyone went freakin’ nuts when O’Donnell hit that opening A that heralded the beginning of ‘A Forest’. A superb set, and that’s two albums down.

And so on to Faith, with the Cure’s co-founder – the aforementioned Tolhurst – sharing a stage with Smith for the first time in 22 years after a post-band relationship that could be described as “colourful” (and also, “litigious”). From the second that ‘The Holy Hour’ began the sound was massive, with Gallup’s bass hitting the room in the collective solar plexus, although Tolhurst’s role seemed to be resticted to “busy work”: the former drummer and keyboardist was left on auxilliary percussion for the most of the set, although he did hit the keys for ‘All Cats Are Grey’ and the title track. And his work wasn’t flawless – his messy rototom rolls did little to enhance ‘Doubt’, for example – but dear god, it was good to see him on stage.

So yes, three albums, all sounding great. And then the encores began.

Oh sweet Jesus, the encores.

You know how the Pixies pulled out their contemporaneous b-sides when they did their Doolittle show? Well, basically, that: the three-piece version kicked out ‘World War’ and – dear god! – ‘I’m Cold’ and ‘Plastic Passion’ before Roger and Lol joined for a triumphant ‘Boys Don’t Cry’, ‘Killing An Arab’ and, possibly best of the night, ‘Jumping Someone Else’s Train’ (and Gallup actually played Dempsey’s bassline, bless him) which segued into its b-side ‘Another Journey By Train’, and they left the stage. The perfect end to a genuinely wonderful night.

And then the crew brought a new setlist out.

And then the band returned with (mainly) instrumental b-sides ‘Descent’ (Smith quipping “not even we know this one”) and ‘Splintered in her Head’, before going into a triumphant version of non-album single ‘Charlotte Sometimes’ and Pornography’s lead single ‘The Hanging Garden’.

“What a perfect way to cover off that entire period, ending with the precursor to the fourth album,” I thought. “That’s pretty much every song they recorded between 1978 and 1981.”

And then the crew brought another setlist out.

And then, friends, the moment which I had been waiting for since becoming a Cure fan at age 10.

The. Cure. Played. The. Fantasy. Trilogy.

See, between the punky-goth band they were and before the pop band they were to become came three transitional seven inches in the early 80s, which were the three songs with which I fell in love: ‘Let’s Go To Bed’, ‘The Walk’ and – and you should probably sit down at this point, although no-one in the Opera House did – ‘The Love Cats’.

Holy mother of fuck.

It was glorious, playful, joyous, and when Smith fucked up the ‘Love Cats’ bridge he recovered by pointing at himself and asking the crowd “How could you miss someone as dumb as this”?

It’s a memory I’ll be taking to the grave.

Vivid, thank you.

The Cure at Vivid Live, May 31-June 1 2011

This was published online at Time Out Sydney after the first show and before the second…

Daniel Boud makes the best photographs on the planet. FACT.

First up: if you’re going tonight, stop reading now. There are some spoilers to come regarding the setlist and I don’t want to ruin the surprise.

“But Andrew, the show’s their first three albums: I know what the setlist is.” No, you really don’t. Stop reading – but just know you’re going to have a very, very good time. Oh, and that you should take the toilet breaks when they’re offered. You’ll thank me.

Still with me, rest of you? Let’s press on.

This show, nice Vivid Festival surprise that it was, seemed to be an odd decision on the Cure’s part. With the best will in the world, and acknowledging that they do have some genuinely classic albums, their debut is… well, a bit shit.

Robert Smith acknowledged as much at the time, fuming that manager/producer Chris Parry put Three Imaginary Boys together from sessions Smith was unhappy with, and it never even got a proper release in Australia with Polygram opting instead for the superior best-tracks-from-Boys-plus-singles-and-b-sides mish-mash Boys Don’t Cry.

Yet here is Smith, flanked by his long-time rhythm section of bassist Simon Gallup (1980-1982, 1985-present) and drummer Jason Cooper (1995-present), neither of whom played on the album. How would Cooper handle Lol Tolhurst’s enthusiastic-yet-unschooled drumming? How would Gallup take on Michael Dempsey’s fiddly basslines?

The answer, it turns out, is they don’t even try. Cooper stuck with his trademark straight-ahead drumming (either “solid” or “dull”, depending on your inclination) and Gallup (looking inexplicably good for a 50 year old) tended to stick to the root notes. And you know what? It worked.

The set began with the classic ‘10:15 Saturday Night’, then the band slowed down the fidgety ‘Accuracy’ to great effect and the crowd went nuts for ‘Grinding Halt’. And that’s the song that really showed off the sort of Jam-style power-trio the Cure were then, even as the following – the stately, economical ‘Another Day’ was probably the clearest indication as to what was coming on the next few albums. And Robert was in playful form, explaining “I don’t really like this one” before the misogynist thrasher ‘Object’ before busting out harmonica for the terrifying side-one closer ‘Subway Song’.

Side two, a couple of classics aside, is mainly a garbage dump. It never sounded better, though, as the trio powered through the punky cover of ‘Foxy Lady’, ‘Meathook’ and the absolute throwaway ‘So What?’ (“I’m amazed I remembered as much of that as I did”) before the first of the redeeming moments: ‘Fire in Cairo’, with Smith trying to cover both his and Dempsey’s riffs since Gallup wasn’t up to the job. Then it was ‘It’s Not You’ (‘Object’ again, effectively) and the magnificent title track, and that was that. One album down, and a break for the bar.

The stage was reset for Seventeen Seconds, with keyboardist Roger O’Donnell (who joined in 1987, left in 1991, came back in 1995 and was dismissed in 2005) joining the aforementioned trio.

The instrumental ‘A Reflection’ acted as the perfect curtain-raiser before one of the band’s enduring classics: ‘Play For Today’ with pretty much the entire audience singing along with the keyboard riff. ‘’In Your House’ was downright magnificent and ‘At Night’ haunting, and everyone went freakin’ nuts when O’Donnell hit that opening A that heralded the beginning of ‘A Forest’. A superb set, and that’s two albums down.

And so on to Faith, with the Cure’s co-founder – the aforementioned Tolhurst – sharing a stage with Smith for the first time in 22 years after a post-band relationship that could be described as “colourful” (and also, “litigious”).

From the second that ‘The Holy Hour’ began the sound was massive, with Gallup’s bass hitting the room in the collective solar plexus, although Tolhurst’s role seemed to be resticted to “busy work”: the former drummer and keyboardist was left on auxiliary percussion for the most of the set, although he did hit the keys for ‘All Cats Are Grey’ and the title track. And his work wasn’t flawless – his messy rototom rolls did little to enhance ‘Doubt’, for example – but dear god, it was good to see him on stage.

So yes, three albums, all sounding great. And then the encores began.

Oh sweet Jesus, the encores.

You know how the Pixies pulled out their contemporaneous b-sides when they did their Doolittle show? Well, basically, that: the three-piece version kicked out ‘World War’ and – dear god! – ‘I’m Cold’ and ‘Plastic Passion’ before Roger and Lol joined for a triumphant ‘Boys Don’t Cry’, ‘Killing An Arab’ and, possibly best of the night, ‘Jumping Someone Else’s Train’ (and Gallup actually played Dempsey’s bassline, bless him) which segued into its b-side ‘Another Journey By Train’, and they left the stage. The perfect end to a genuinely wonderful night.

And then the crew brought a new setlist out.

And then the band returned with (mainly) instrumental b-sides ‘Descent’ (Smith quipping “not even we know this one”) and ‘Splintered in her Head’, before going into a triumphant version of non-album single ‘Charlotte Sometimes’ and Pornography’s lead single ‘The Hanging Garden’.

“What a perfect way to cover off that entire period, ending with the precursor to the fourth album,” I thought. “That’s pretty much every song they recorded between 1978 and 1981.”

And then the crew brought another setlist out.

And then, friends, the moment which I had been waiting for since becoming a Cure fan at age 10.

The. Cure. Played. The. Fantasy. Trilogy.

See, between the punky-goth band they were and before the pop band they were to become came three transitional seven inches in the early 80s, which were the three songs with which I fell in love: ‘Let’s Go To Bed’, ‘The Walk’ and – and you should probably sit down at this point, although no-one in the Opera House did – ‘The Love Cats’.

Holy mother of fuck.

It was glorious, playful, joyous, and when Smith fucked up the ‘Love Cats’ bridge he recovered by pointing at himself and asking the crowd “How could you miss someone as dumb as this”?

It’s a memory I’ll be taking to the grave.

Vivid, thank you.

The Apples in Stereo interview

Originally published at Time Out Sydney 6 September, 2009

The Apples in Stereo’s leader Robert Schneider explains why non-standard harmonics are like avocados, among other revelations

large-Apples

Lovers of sweet, sweet pop music, take note: the singer/songwriter/main creative force of The Apples In Stereo, Mr Robert Scheinder, is on his way to Australia and will be doing some intimate solo shows while he’s here. This is a major cause for celebration as Schneider’s one of the greatest writers of melodic, harmony-drenched guitar pop on the planet (as the new Apples Best Of, #1 Hits Explosion, makes more than clear).

The Apples In Stereo - #1 Hits ExplosionHowever, that’s not the only reason he’s coming to our nation. He’s one of the guests of Queensland’s Big Sound music conference, where he’ll be imparting wisdom to the next generation of young musicians and producers. Not that he’s actually thought it through at this point…

“Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. I have no idea,” he responds with machine-gun pace when asked what he’ll be talking about. “I don’t think I have any wisdom to impart.  Maybe I could tell you how to mike a snare drum or something like that. Um, I don’t know. I haven’t really planned anything out exactly in that way. I just thought I would let the spirit of pop music speak through me for a short time. I mean I’ve spoken at some maths conferences and stuff like that, but I do like public speaking and stuff. I guess it’s just not a particularly well planned out sort of thing.”

Yes, aside from all things musical, Schneider’s a total maths nerd. How many other indie pop musicians can you think of who’ve developed an entire musical scale based on logarithms? The scale made its debut on some interludes on 2007’s superb New Magnetic Wonder, as well as creating a strange, unnatural-sounding chime intro to ‘Can You Feel It?’, which begs the question: since the scale sounds so “wrong” to most people’s ears, how on earth does a melodic pop nut like Schneider even think in those terms?

“It was hard for me to write in such a strange scale,” he admits. “It makes my brain feel like it’s twisting in my head, but I really like that feeling. On the new Apples record that we’re working on, I’ve just finished a song where a lot of the chord progressions are in both regular scale and the logarithmic scale, but the solo sections are played in the logarithmic scale.”

He pauses for a second for breath. “I called it a ‘non-Pythagorean scale’, though, but that’s just because I thought ‘logarithmic’ sounded kind of cold. It’s something that seems so futuristic. Often when you say futuristic you get kind of a cold feeling, but in reality one would like to imagine that the future will be very warm – not in a global warming kind of way, of course. I mean more emotionally warm.”

As to where his interest in experimental music comes from, he credits “my friend Jim Mcintyre [Apples co-founder and leader of Olivia Tremor Control] and Jeff Magnum [reclusive genius behind Neautral Milk Hotel], they’ve all been really into experimental music for many years. I mean, I’m not really in an experimental scene as most of my friends are. I’m more interested in the pure tones, not so much the music theory aspect. I’m interested more in the strange harmonies, that’s what really turn me on. Like my ear might crave them from time to time like, you know, an avocado or something. Or a fig!”

While it’s good to hear that Magnum is still experimenting with music, like everyone else who had their mind blown by Neutral Milk Hotel’s 1998 swansong In The Aeroplane Over The Sea (which Schneider produced, incidentally), it would be even better news if he’d just pick up a standard-tuned guitar and, just as a suggestion, write some fucking songs.

“I guess I understand,” Schneider laughs. “But for me, him being one of my best friends, I don’t really think about it. It’s just like: OK, he’s not producing songs. But at the same time he’s informed me a lot because I’ve only really ever released pop music.”

And pop music is the plan for Schneider’s Sydney show – which is not to say that he’s actually got that at all worked out either, really…

“I kind of just pull out the acoustic guitar and close my eyes see what song I’ll play and usually I’m able to remember the whole thing and usually it impresses me by the time I’m at the end of it,” he laughs. “Oh, except that at the end of it, it’s always like ‘oh, man‘ because I’m playing acoustically I don’t have a planned ending so you sort of have to come up with something clever on the spot, and then it’s the next song. That’s my plan of action.”

Robert Schneider plays at the Hopetoun on Sat 13 Sep. #1 Hits Explosion is out through Popfrenzy

Brian Eno interview

First published in Time Out Sydney, 15 May 2009

(So, back in 2009 I interviewed Brian Eno for the Luminous Festival – which was an early run for what became Sydney’s Vivid Festival. Eno was the first curator of the festival, choosing all of the acts and arranging collaborations. And yes, interviewing him was 100 per cent a dream come true.)

The man's basically a genius, let's not muck around.

The man’s basically a genius, let’s not muck around.

What governed your choices of performer for Luminous?
Two things: who I wanted, and who I could get.

So there wasn’t an overarching aesthetic?
Yes, there is. The overarching aesthetic is “things I like or want to see”. Things that I think are at the cutting edge of some-or-other form of music that I’m interested in. They’re all things that, to me, seem like pioneers.

So you would argue that Ladytron, who many critics would consider to be pushing a retro-80s-synth sort of thing, are pioneers?
Well, it’s interesting. I think that in music there is no history any longer: everything is present. This is one of the results of digitisation, where everybody owns everything: you don’t just have your little record collection of things you saved up for and guard so carefully. My daughters have 50,000 albums or something each, but not only that they have albums from every era of popular music history, from doo-wop onwards, and they don’t really know what’s current and what was done a long time ago. For instance, they were listening to something a few nights ago – some prog-rock thing, I can’t remember what it was now – and I said “gosh, I remember when that came out we all thought it was really boring,” and she said “what? Is this old then?” [laughs] To her, and many of her generation, everything is equally present so “retro” doesn’t really have quite the same meaning.

But surely something crucial has something been lost in that?
I think something has been lost, and something else has been gained. What’s been lost is evident particularly to my generation because records were so crucially important to us: they so much defined a cultural position and one knew somebody by their choices in records, so it was really the centre of a cultural conversation. And part of the reason for that was that you had to make quite a big investment in your record collection: they were expensive and so you didn’t have that many of them. And I think when you make that kind of investment in something you take it seriously and become committed to it – and you get the benefits of taking it seriously and being committed to it. What then happened was that music became like water – in fact, slightly cheaper than water – and so now there’s a completely different attitude to it. And the healthy part of this new attitude is what I was explaining before: having this undifferentiated field that’s pretty much free of prejudices. The music doesn’t carry so much ideological baggage with it as it used to. I remember when it was politically uncool to like ABBA, for example, and absolutely essential to claim that you admired the Velvet Underground. I think a lot of that is gone, and I think it’s good that it’s gone too.

Is that the only plus?
No, the other thing that I think has happened is that when the music becomes effectively free, everything else that is non-copyable becomes valuable. For instance, performances: there’s so much more live performance in England now than there has been for years, probably ever, and bands take their live performances very seriously. They make records to promote performances, basically, whereas we used to do performances to promote records. Suddenly performance is again very, very lively and interesting, at every level. With the big bands now it’s like the circus coming to town when they turn up, and they really go to town on the technological aspects of what they’re doing. And festivals: there are far more of them than there have been. They’ve become alibis for new sorts of temporary communities among young people, which I like. I think that’s all wonderful.

That’s certainly true in Australia too.
The other thing that’s happened is that because it’s very difficult to sell CDs now, instead what you do now is make fantastic packages. This is becoming a quite new art form, I think. I bought a boxed set the other day – it’s six CDs of early American religious music, old 78s [78 rpm LPs] that have been put onto CD – and it’s in a beautiful wooden box and there’s a a fantastic book with it. It’s a real piece of musical archaeology, beautifully produced, wonderfully done. It’s a combination of beautiful listening experience and academic text and art object – and that really only came about because you can’t make money selling CDs any longer.

However, if the sense of a record as being “a record” of a particular time is lost, doesn’t this feed into a general short-termism in people’s thinking with regards art, politics, social movements…?
You know, I don’t think that’s so. I think the same thing is happening in politics, and possibly across the board, that people have become disaffected with the idea of single, unifying ideologies. So everybody is mixing and matching, picking bits of this and bits of that, and it’s very difficult to find any interesting political thought on the committed left or the committed right. They’re simplistic. They actually seem historical and out-of-touch. To me all the interesting thought is coming from people you can’t place on that spectrum somehow. Their ideas exist all over that spectrum – and I think the same thing is true with music. There are so many bands now that one finds interesting because of the combination of all of the possible historical threads they could have chosen, the ones they have chosen to weave together, you think “ooh, that’s interesting, how could somebody put those things together and get away with it, and make something I like?” So I think that’s kind of what’s happening now with painting, and politics, and economics.

Certainly it’s been an interesting time for economic dogma…
Oh yes – the whole meltdown of the world financial system has really disabused a lot of people of what seemed to be a dominant and here-to-last-for-a-long-long-time ideology, the free market. And remember, it was only 19 years ago that Francis Fukiyama published his book The End of Historywhich claimed, with absolute confidence, that we’d found the solution and it was market capitalism and economic liberalism. And it was only nine years ago that the Americans published their national security document which spoke of this century as being an American Century and that the American approach was the only one left standing after the 20th century. So in a very few years theres’s been an incredible change in atmosphere, and I think it’s been across the board. I don’t think it’s gonna last forever – I’m sure it will harden again into ideologies and simplistic theories, but for the moment, it’s exciting.

Well, the Iraq invasion put the lie to the idea that the free market necessarily brings democracy, and the rise of China disproved the notion that democracy is necessary for a robust economy.
Yes, exactly. What’s happened in the last few years is that there have been some very expensive experiments, Iraq being one of them, and China being another, and Russia being another: that’s another example of authoritarian capitalism. This was thought to be a contradiction in terms – it would have been described as an oxymoron to say “authoritarian capitalism” because the idea, in the Fukiyama picture of things, was that neo-liberal capitalism automatically produced all the social benefits that they were so proud of. And then along comes China and Russia, two countries that clearly are very different, both from us and from each other, and they’ve found two other solutions to the equation. It doesn’t turn out to have one solution.

Your own music is often very experimental, yet you’ve worked closely with huge mainstream bands like U2 and Coldplay: would it be an unfair oversimplification to say they’re simply buying themselves some Eno cred?
Well, no.

That’s impressively candid.
Well, it’s not completely wrongheaded. I’m sure like everybody they want to work with people they like and whose work they admire, and they like mine, they like the things I’ve been involved with, so yes: I’m sure part of it is them saying “I’d like a bit of that as well.” And why not? That’s what I would do if I were them [laughs]. So I don’t think it’s an unfair assessment, but I don’t think it’s a bad thing for them to do. They wouldn’t be upset by somebody saying that to them. If you said “so, are you just trying to buy a bit of Brian Eno’s credibility?” they’d say “well, yeah, maybe.” But actually the real reason they’re doing it is because, like everyone else who’s smart, once you’re successful it’s very easy to get stuck.

Stuck?
Yes, because absolutely everybody in the universe is encouraging you to do more of the same thing. And I don’t, basically. I don’t do it on principle. I’m just not interested in doing more of the same thing. I’m always interested when I hear something that’s like a little shoot, a little bud that I haven’t heard before, and I go “oooh, that’s exciting, let’s see where that goes.” It’s hard for people to realise how rarely that happens for big bands, when somebody is really pushing the new things that they’re doing rather than the old things.

So your job in the studio is to limit what a band’s doing?
Oh, definitely, yes. Because the possibilities increase exponentially: every year there are a thousand new ways to waste time in the studio – every week, actually. And in fact what so often happens when one has trillions of options is that you think you’ll find the answer somewhere among the options if you just keep looking for long enough – and it’s never true, in my experience. The answer, whatever the answer is, is in you. I always notice when I’m drawing with a pencil, which is a very limited tool, I very quickly get to the point of knowing whether I’ve got an idea or not, whether anything good will happen or not, because the tool doesn’t offer than many options for experimentation. You very quickly do all the things you could do with it. And similarly with more simple instruments like electric guitars and drums and so on. Once you get into ProTools, that deadly infection, then anything is possible. There’s the famous joke about the producer who holds down the talkback button in the studio and says to the band “That was absolute shit. Come in.” Because it so often happens – in ProTools you can sort-of fix anything up to make it sound half decent, and I don’t like that. I don’t like to work that way.

But your own life is an example of wild, distracting options: you make music, you write, you paint, you work with corporations, you’re involved with [futurist thinktank] The Long Now… you hardly seem to be limiting your own options.
Well, I do have periods where I am completely lost. And I find I have one useful talent, which is that I can completely forget everything else when I’m working on one thing. I have fairly powerful focus when I need to have it, and I also have enthusiasm for what I’m doing. I have strong opinions, basically, and I think that’s another reason why people like me in the studio, because I get either totally indignant or very excited about things. I rarely feel lukewarm about anything because it really is of no use to anyone to say [affects bored tone] “oh, that’s quite good.” That doesn’t help at all. You want strong positions, and I take strong positions without any effort. And I of course have the same problem that every other musician working with electronics does, which is that there’s constantly new stuff to find out about – but I just decidenot to find out about a lot of it. I sort of have an idea of which area of things would interest me and go somewhere new, and I don’t even bother to look at the rest of it, I don’t want to know. Life is too short.

What sort of things have you ignored recently?
Well, a synthesiser company recently offered me – very kindly – this fabulous new synthesiser, and I had it for two or three days at the studio and I thought “to actually understand this would take about six months, otherwise I’m just going to use the presets they put in there, and I’m much too arrogant to do that.” So I sent it back. I thought, “It’s a waste on me. Give it to some youngster who can really learn it.”

And yet you’re involved in the development of [iPhone self-generating music program] Bloom: clearly you don’t ignore new technological developments…
No, but that’s because for a long, long time I’ve had this thread that I’ve been carrying through, which is this idea of generative music, and whenever I see a new chance of doing that I’m very interested. So the iPhone offered that possibility, because I had realised three or four years ago that I wasn’t going to be able to do generative music properly– in the sense of giving people generative music systems that they could use themselves – without involving computers. And it kind of stymied me: I hate things on computers and I hate the idea that people have to sit there with a mouse to get a piece of music to work. So then when the iPhone came out I thought “oh good: it’s a computer that people carry in their pockets and use their fingers on”, so suddenly that was interesting again.

Isn’t there some irony in your hating music for computers, given that you created the Windows start up chime? I mean, it was designed for a computer and was reportedly the world’s most-heard piece of music.
Well, it was for a while [laughs]. I made one a long time ago, for the 95 Windows, so I had what, a billion or two listeners…

The Sydney Opera House presented Luminous, which ran 26 May–14 Jun 2009.